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Traveller-digest     Monday, November 22 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1379<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
MONGO NATIONAL GUARD FLEES IN TERROR!!<BR>
Re: Fifth Frontier War<BR>
Re: Slavery was Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
Re: Slavery was Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
old 15mm Traveller mini's by Citadel<BR>
[none]<BR>
Re: Slavery was Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
Re: Slavery was Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
OFF TOPIC (OT): Taikonauts!<BR>
Re: dampers and reactors<BR>
Re: OFF TOPIC (OT): Taikonauts!<BR>
Re: MONGO NATIONAL GUARD FLEES IN TERROR!!<BR>
Re: User Interface Question<BR>
Galactic<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Re: OFF TOPIC (OT): Taikonauts!<BR>
Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
Re: OFF TOPIC (OT): Taikonauts!<BR>
Traveller-like fiction<BR>
Ecky Thump!<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 12:57:06 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: MONGO NATIONAL GUARD FLEES IN TERROR!!<BR>
<BR>
(I am reposting this message as most of it was cut off<BR>
in the first transmission.)<BR>
<BR>
MONGO NATIONAL GUARD FLEES IN TERROR!!<BR>
Zhodanis occupy capital<BR>
Ming the Merciless Missing<BR>
<BR>
182-1107 -- Jewell/Jewell/Spinward Marches<BR>
<BR>
Years of tense and uneasy peace along the Imperium's<BR>
spinward border gave way to war last week, as Zhodani<BR>
forces launched a massive invasion of the<BR>
JewellCluster.  <BR>
<BR>
In the worst fighting, Zhodani fleet elements,<BR>
believed to belong to the 40th and 65th Fleets,<BR>
bombarded defense forces on Mongo for more than ten<BR>
hours before several divisions of Zhodani troops<BR>
landed over fierce resistance at the downport.  Once<BR>
the Zhodani troops were on the ground, however, the<BR>
Mongo National Guard's morale crumbled and it soon<BR>
ceased to exist as a coherent unit.  The Mongo Armored<BR>
Battalion stood its ground, but was wiped out to the<BR>
last vehicle with heavy loss of life, during a<BR>
desperate holding action at the palace.  <BR>
<BR>
Ming the Merciless, ruler of Mongo for over seventy<BR>
years, is reported to have gone into hiding somewhere<BR>
on-planet.  A holovid broadcast over the airwaves<BR>
before surrender showed Ming in full battle regalia<BR>
promising to carry on the fight from guerrilla bases. <BR>
"I know more about Zhodani methods than an Imperial<BR>
baron should," he stated, "that's why I was sent to<BR>
rule this distant, forsaken rock.  Nivrnditlas's<BR>
troops will not have an easy time here." (Nivrnditlas<BR>
is a Zhodani admiral, but TNS was unable to confirm<BR>
whether he is attached to the 40th or 65th Fleets.)<BR>
<BR>
In other action, Zhodani fleets annihilated Emerald's<BR>
defense forces by bombardment, but curiously did not<BR>
land any troops.  Ruby and Nakege fell to overwhelming<BR>
Zhodani forces after offering token resistance.  <BR>
<BR>
Imperial spokespersons on Jewell, speaking on<BR>
condition of anonymity, stated that appropriate<BR>
countermeasures are being taken, and noted that,<BR>
contrary to Zhodani propaganda, no insurgent forces,<BR>
such as the mysterious Ine Givar, have risen to<BR>
support the invasion.<BR>
<BR>
The Traveller News Service is an Imperium-wide benefit<BR>
of membership in the Travellers' Aid Society.  <BR>
<BR>
0<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 12:59:00 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fifth Frontier War<BR>
<BR>
(I am reposting this message as it apparently did not<BR>
succeed in the first transmission.)<BR>
<BR>
- --- Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
> Kristian Miller kindly hosted a game of Fifth<BR>
> Frontier War at his home in San Jose today.  Luther <BR>
> Martin was<BR>
> in charge of Zhodani/Outworld Coalition forces, and<BR>
> I was in charge of Imperial forces.  We met at about<BR>
> 11 a.m., and adjourned about 4 p.m.  We set up and<BR>
> plotted moves, and completed turn one (see my press<BR>
> release: "Mongo National Guard Flees in Terror!!"). <BR>
> <BR>
> Kristian has a fine garage set aside for gaming, and<BR>
> we have left the board and other charts set up.  We<BR>
> plan to reconvene on Saturday 18 December 1999 at<BR>
> 11:00 a.m.  Anyone interested is welcome to join us<BR>
> for team play, other games, or even double-blind<BR>
> team play.  Please email Kristian off-list for<BR>
> directions.<BR>
> <BR>
> We shall be posting press releases for as long as we<BR>
> are playing.<BR>
> <BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:05:51 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Slavery was Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan writes:<BR>
> Enslavement doesn't mean that you think of your enemies as subhuman,<BR>
> especially the older forms of slavery that aren't based on race or other<BR>
> easily identifiable characteristics.<BR>
<BR>
While historically the racial distinctions were less obvious than blacks in white culture, it was usually possible to identify someone as 'not my tribe', which is all you really need.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Among the Romans, the Norse and many other peoples, slavery made you part<BR>
> of a household.  <BR>
<BR>
Among the Assyrians, the Egyptians, the Aztec, etc, it didn't.  The Romans were remarkably humane by standards of ancient races.<BR>
<BR>
> Are their any cultures in your TU that practice slavery?  Do you believe<BR>
> that slavery is economically unworkable after a culture reaches a certain<BR>
> TL?  I am curious as to how people have dealt with this issue.  I am sure<BR>
> that there's no slavery in the 3I, but what about other places?  Traveller<BR>
> is really a space opera, and slavery is prevalent in lots of those.<BR>
<BR>
I haven't really bothered to address the issue.  In general, I assume that its closer to the modern mold, which means sweatshop labor and company towns.  Of course, 'evil oppressive alien races' could do whatever seemed appropriate.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:14:45 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
<BR>
>is concerned.  =)  Forgive my space brain and tell me if there was an<BR>
>ideological component to Carthage or if it was one of those hundreds of<BR>
>years of ethnic hatred due to close competition things.<BR>
<BR>
It was essentially a dispute over territory. The Phonecian-decended<BR>
Carthaginians had a wealthy trade empire, and Rome, as an expansionist<BR>
power, wanted in on that action. Sicily, Spain, and North Africa were all<BR>
in dispute.<BR>
<BR>
There is little evidence that there were higher-than-normal ethnic tensions<BR>
involved, and none at all of religious dispute, AFAIK.<BR>
<BR>
The razing of Carthage and the salting of the ground seemed to have as much<BR>
to do with revenge for Hannibal Barca's long rampage in the Roman homeland<BR>
as anything else.<BR>
<BR>
IMHO, greed tends to be the biggest factor in why wars get started, with<BR>
ideologies providing a convienient rationalization to justify the cause.<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:18:32 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Slavery was Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Kiri Aradia Morgan writes:<BR>
> > Enslavement doesn't mean that you think of your enemies as subhuman,<BR>
> > especially the older forms of slavery that aren't based on race or other<BR>
> > easily identifiable characteristics.<BR>
> <BR>
> While historically the racial distinctions were less obvious than<BR>
> blacks in white culture, it was usually possible to identify someone<BR>
> as 'not my tribe', which is all you really need.<BR>
> <BR>
> > Among the Romans, the Norse and many other peoples, slavery made you part<BR>
> > of a household.  <BR>
> <BR>
> Among the Assyrians, the Egyptians, the Aztec, etc, it didn't.  The<BR>
> Romans were remarkably humane by standards of ancient races.<BR>
> <BR>
True.  But they weren't much more humane to members of their own peoples,<BR>
often.   At least not the Assyrians or the Aztecs.  Assyria was a terrible<BR>
place to be born female.  <BR>
<BR>
The Egyptians were somewhere in the middle and slavery among any of these<BR>
peoples cannot really be compared to what is going on in Bosnia, Rwanda,<BR>
or what was practiced during WWII.<BR>
<BR>
Rome actually was a pretty good place to live throughout most of its<BR>
history; it gets a bad rap due to Sunday School stories, but Christianity<BR>
was one of the few religions it *DIDN'T* tolerate and that was because the<BR>
Christians were actively campaigning against the gov't-- Rome ignored<BR>
religion except when it interfered with government and only ever really<BR>
got seriously into oppressing three religions:  Zoroastrianism, Druidism<BR>
and Christianity.  They even gave the Jews an exemption from worshipping<BR>
the Emperor once they understood that the Jews were monotheists who<BR>
weren't going to bother other people.<BR>
<BR>
Rome is a very good model for a benevolent Empire at any tech level.<BR>
Except for the little problem of having the army pick the Emperors, LOL.<BR>
<BR>
> > Are their any cultures in your TU that practice slavery?  <BR>
> <BR>
> I haven't really bothered to address the issue.  In general, I assume<BR>
> that its closer to the modern mold, which means sweatshop labor and<BR>
> company towns.  Of course, 'evil oppressive alien races' could do<BR>
> whatever seemed appropriate.<BR>
> <BR>
Heheheheh.  I expect that's the usual.  I just recall being surprised to<BR>
see slavery in "The Phantom Menace".  Usually people don't mention it much<BR>
any more, even though it fits in with the type of culture that universe<BR>
had.<BR>
<BR>
I have run Traveller in the universe where my novels are set and there are<BR>
several slave-owning cultures, and several non-slave-owning cultures<BR>
(which sets things up perfectly for those nasty atrocity-filled<BR>
ideological wars...)<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:24:43 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: old 15mm Traveller mini's by Citadel<BR>
<BR>
  For those who are interested, this most excellent site for all things<BR>
lead now has the catalog photos and UK box art upn their site:<BR>
<BR>
        http://www.voodoostudios.com/Legends/cittrav/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
>>Finally put up the Traveller lists and pictures!<BR>
...<BR>
>>The Stuff of Legends - The F&SF Miniature Archive<BR>
>>http://www.voodoostudios.com/Legends <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 12:21:44 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
>><BR>
>I would tend to agree with you; that's why I mentioned that it was what he<BR>
>said.  But I can't remember what Carthage was about... it's being one of<BR>
>those days at work, and the period of history I know best begins with<BR>
>Julius Caesar and ends with the Enlightenment, at least as far as Europe<BR>
>is concerned.  =)  Forgive my space brain and tell me if there was an<BR>
>ideological component to Carthage or if it was one of those hundreds of<BR>
>years of ethnic hatred due to close competition things.<BR>
><BR>
Carthage was being encouraged to join the Roman Empire. Carthage refused.<BR>
No big deal... take 'em by force, think the romans, who then get embarrased<BR>
by over 10 years of constant fighting with Carthage's Armies. In the middle<BR>
of this, at one point, the roman army broke and ran, so some higher-up<BR>
decided they "Needed steel in their backs", and so one in 10 legionaires<BR>
recieved a hot iron enema, aimed along the spine.<BR>
<BR>
So, when Carthage finally falls, they line up the men, kill one in 10 (mind<BR>
you, these are from the survivors of the capture), Declare 1 in 10 of the<BR>
women to be  unpaid prostitutes, Declare the rest to be non-citizens, and<BR>
till the fields with enough salt that it took over 1000 years before<BR>
saltwater grasses would take. "New Carthage" is some 20 miles from the<BR>
original.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:27:44 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Slavery was Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Commodifying people is not the same as completely<BR>
> dehumanizing them, and commodification was almost never absolute in the<BR>
> ancient world because people had to spend too much time together in<BR>
> households not to think of each other as human beings.<BR>
<BR>
The key word here is 'commodifying'. They were worth something, in many<BR>
cases, worth quite a lot. People own horses, oxen, dogs, they, well,<BR>
they provide living space and food for cats ;-) Slaves were viewed in<BR>
much the same way...a good slave was worth a heck of a lot, and it was<BR>
stupid to mistreat them, same as it is to mistreat a good horse...it<BR>
makes them worth less. <BR>
<BR>
Enslaving people because they are part of the untermenschen (sp, I'm<BR>
sure), as the Nazis did, is another kettle of fish. They were seen as<BR>
disposable, worthless, but you might get some use out of them before<BR>
they wore out and were thrown away, which was the ultimate goal anyway.<BR>
The Nazi's were hell bent on exterminating those they found to be<BR>
subhuman, but they were also pragmatic to a germanic fault...why waste<BR>
good labor while you had it?<BR>
 <BR>
> Are their any cultures in your TU that practice slavery?  Do you believe<BR>
> that slavery is economically unworkable after a culture reaches a certain<BR>
> TL?  I am curious as to how people have dealt with this issue.  I am sure<BR>
> that there's no slavery in the 3I, but what about other places?  Traveller<BR>
> is really a space opera, and slavery is prevalent in lots of those.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Chattel slavery, 'people as property' is specifically outlawed as an<BR>
Imperial Crime. Curiously, this does not seem to include indentured<BR>
servitude.<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure that there are any number of Megacorps who are happy to provide<BR>
their workers with all their needs at the company store, housing them in<BR>
the company quarters, schooling them in the company schools....charging<BR>
them a little bit more than they make all the while...<BR>
<BR>
'...another day older and deeper in debt...'<BR>
<BR>
The difference between this and chattel slavery is pretty much mere<BR>
window dressing. <BR>
While the law forbids passing the parent's debt on to their children, a<BR>
particularly callous megacorp might well charge the children, not their<BR>
parents for schooling, medical care, etc, so they hit 18 with an<BR>
unmanageable debt to start with.<BR>
<BR>
I wrote a T4-era adventure around a world where indentured servitude =<BR>
chattel slavery. It was set outside the Imperium, but could easily occur<BR>
somewhere inside, depending on how devious the megacorp execs are.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~bjohnson/slavers_of_gennare.txt<BR>
<BR>
(A prettier version of this is on Freelance Traveller.)<BR>
<BR>
Slavery is only workable when you have something that needs human labor,<BR>
rather than machine labor to do it. Robot work 3 shifts, no<BR>
lunch/coffee/potty breaks, no life support is necessary, no pesky worker<BR>
safty rules apply, they're pretty much immune to unionization.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think it's very workable on a mass industrial scale.<BR>
<BR>
On an agricultural one, well that depends greatly on how cheap robots<BR>
are.<BR>
<BR>
As household servants, OTOH, slavery will be practical as long as rich<BR>
people are lazy. However, that is a vanishingly small segment of the<BR>
workplace.<BR>
<BR>
OTGH, lots and lots of people will be contract laborers, blue and white<BR>
collar, and the Company will own their contracts. If you have no choice<BR>
but to work for Eneri's Widget Works until Eneri decides to release you<BR>
from your contract, what again is the difference between that and<BR>
slavery?<BR>
<BR>
That was the basis for the MLB players association successful suit to<BR>
allow free agency by the baseball players; it reached the Supreme Court,<BR>
and the (then) existing system of player contracts was overturned on<BR>
14th amendment grounds, as being equivalent to slavery.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:32:46 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Slavery was Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan writes:<BR>
> Rome actually was a pretty good place to live throughout most of its<BR>
> history; it gets a bad rap due to Sunday School stories, but Christianity<BR>
> was one of the few religions it *DIDN'T* tolerate and that was because the<BR>
> Christians were actively campaigning against the gov't-- Rome ignored<BR>
> religion except when it interfered with government and only ever really<BR>
> got seriously into oppressing three religions:  Zoroastrianism, Druidism<BR>
> and Christianity.  They even gave the Jews an exemption from worshipping<BR>
> the Emperor once they understood that the Jews were monotheists who<BR>
> weren't going to bother other people.<BR>
<BR>
Well, they also evicted the Jews from Palestine, but that's because the Jews were apparently the inventers of middle eastern terrorism.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 16:55:26 -0500<BR>
From: dennis.f.belanger@bellatlantic.com<BR>
Subject: OFF TOPIC (OT): Taikonauts!<BR>
<BR>
Hey Josh,<BR>
<BR>
     Better dead than Red!<BR>
<BR>
     The only " good will" I want to see in space exploration is the courtesy we<BR>
might extend to other nations for the use of OUR tech, OUR ships and OUR<BR>
personelle.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dennis<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:01:25 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: dampers and reactors<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> In the Starship Operators guide it did say that fusion reactors had a<BR>
> deuterium tank which was used for crash starting the reactor. Could not the<BR>
> fuel purification system include items to seperate deuterium and possibly<BR>
> tritium to help initiate the fusion reaction?<BR>
<BR>
It's a nice idea, but it's about as practical as trying to start a big<BR>
lump of anthracite (hard coal) on fire with a match.<BR>
<BR>
"Protium" (H1) requires *much* higher temperatures and pressures than<BR>
deuterium or D-T mixtures. As I recall we are talking *orders of<BR>
magnitude* higher (10 to 100 times).<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, there are reactor designs being looked at that<BR>
*don't* require high temp and high pressure. But they tend to require<BR>
rather *large* reactors.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:10:06 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC (OT): Taikonauts!<BR>
<BR>
Dennis:<BR>
Sorry you feel that way. In quite a few cases, we were no better than<BR>
the Soviets in the arms race: sending soldiers in toward ground zero,<BR>
not compensating them properly; deploying nukes in other countries<BR>
without the permission of the host governments. If everything we do in<BR>
space is to be American-made, that's not common sense in my humble<BR>
opinion...that's arrogance.<BR>
<BR>
In this case then, let us agree to disagree.<BR>
<BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
dennis.f.belanger@bellatlantic.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Hey Josh,<BR>
> <BR>
>      Better dead than Red!<BR>
> <BR>
>      The only " good will" I want to see in space exploration is the courtesy we<BR>
> might extend to other nations for the use of OUR tech, OUR ships and OUR<BR>
> personelle.<BR>
> <BR>
> Dennis<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:12:37 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: MONGO NATIONAL GUARD FLEES IN TERROR!!<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> (I am reposting this message as most of it was cut off<BR>
> in the first transmission.)<BR>
> <BR>
> MONGO NATIONAL GUARD FLEES IN TERROR!!<BR>
> Zhodanis occupy capital<BR>
> Ming the Merciless Missing<BR>
> <BR>
> 182-1107 -- Jewell/Jewell/Spinward Marches<BR>
> <BR>
> Years of tense and uneasy peace along the Imperium's<BR>
> spinward border gave way to war last week, as Zhodani<BR>
> forces launched a massive invasion of the<BR>
> JewellCluster.<BR>
> <BR>
> In the worst fighting, Zhodani fleet elements,<BR>
> believed to belong to the 40th and 65th Fleets,<BR>
> bombarded defense forces on Mongo for more than ten<BR>
> hours before several divisions of Zhodani troops<BR>
> landed over fierce resistance at the downport.  Once<BR>
> the Zhodani troops were on the ground, however, the<BR>
> Mongo National Guard's morale crumbled and it soon<BR>
> ceased to exist as a coherent unit.  The Mongo Armored<BR>
> Battalion stood its ground, but was wiped out to the<BR>
> last vehicle with heavy loss of life, during a<BR>
> desperate holding action at the palace.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ming the Merciless, ruler of Mongo for over seventy<BR>
> years, is reported to have gone into hiding somewhere<BR>
> on-planet.  A holovid broadcast over the airwaves<BR>
> before surrender showed Ming in full battle regalia<BR>
> promising to carry on the fight from guerrilla bases.<BR>
> "I know more about Zhodani methods than an Imperial<BR>
> baron should," he stated, "that's why I was sent to<BR>
> rule this distant, forsaken rock.  Nivrnditlas's<BR>
> troops will not have an easy time here." (Nivrnditlas<BR>
> is a Zhodani admiral, but TNS was unable to confirm<BR>
> whether he is attached to the 40th or 65th Fleets.)<BR>
> <BR>
> In other action, Zhodani fleets annihilated Emerald's<BR>
> defense forces by bombardment, but curiously did not<BR>
> land any troops.  Ruby and Nakege fell to overwhelming<BR>
> Zhodani forces after offering token resistance.<BR>
> <BR>
> Imperial spokespersons on Jewell, speaking on<BR>
> condition of anonymity, stated that appropriate<BR>
> countermeasures are being taken, and noted that,<BR>
> contrary to Zhodani propaganda, no insurgent forces,<BR>
> such as the mysterious Ine Givar, have risen to<BR>
> support the invasion.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Glenn:<BR>
IS this an actual campaign? If so, when does Flash Gordon, Dale Arden<BR>
and Dr. Zarkov show up? :) :)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 23:20:55 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: User Interface Question<BR>
<BR>
>> 2) If crew and accomodation adjustments could be done automatically<BR>
>> (ie. when you increase the jump drive, the number of engineers and<BR>
>> their accomodations are automatically increased too), would you use<BR>
>> this feature?<BR>
><BR>
>This sounds good to me, provided it can be swiched off, overridden, or<BR>
>tweaked.<BR>
<BR>
Three options for what to do when things don't match: (i) accept it, (ii)<BR>
warn the user and let them decide whether to adjust it, or (iii) adjust it<BR>
automatically. User selects which they prefer.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> 3) How important would economic data (from Far Trader) be?<BR>
><BR>
>Nice, but not essential. But, if you're going to do an econ analysis in it,<BR>
>make certain you allow for either base GT Book separately from GT:FT,<BR>
>asthey will have much different break-even points.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks. I was just going to do GT:FT, now I'll look at GT as well.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:23:56 -0000<BR>
From: jghamrick@or.freei.net<BR>
Subject: Galactic<BR>
<BR>
I've just searched a zillion Traveller sights to no avail. Can anyone <BR>
direct me to a place where I can download GALACTIC?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:16:57<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
At 08:44 AM 11/22/1999 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>Phil Kitching wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Thought: Do Imperial Marines throw Emperor Penguins?<BR>
><BR>
>Or would that be considered lese majeste?<BR>
<BR>
Ouch.  You die, so bad.  I'm going to smack you so hard, your grandkids<BR>
going to have black eyes.<BR>
<BR>
Thank Ghu I wasn't drinking anything.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 23:37:05 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC (OT): Taikonauts!<BR>
<BR>
dennis.f.belanger@bellatlantic.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Hey Josh,<BR>
> <BR>
>      Better dead than Red!<BR>
> <BR>
>      The only " good will" I want to see in space exploration is the<BR>
> courtesy we might extend to other nations for the use of OUR tech, OUR<BR>
> ships and OUR personelle.<BR>
<BR>
Replied to in private mail.<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:35:05 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
<BR>
On 22 Nov 99, at 12:00, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Joseph Coles wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > >Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:27:21 -0800 (PST)<BR>
> > >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
> > >Subject: Ideological Warfare<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >My favorite professor said that it was during the Crusades that people<BR>
> > >really began to make the intellectual leap toward dehumanizing others<BR>
> > >and that prior to this, even though there may have been a religious<BR>
> > >aspect, wars were fought mostly over territory.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > I certainly agree that really nasty warfare (salting fields, genocide,<BR>
> > nucs, rocks, etc.) requires de-humanization of one's enenmy. And I'd<BR>
> > agree that the Crusades were a fine example of this.  But I'd question<BR>
> > whether the Crusades were the first example.  What about Carthage, for<BR>
> > example?  <BR>
> > <BR>
> I would tend to agree with you; that's why I mentioned that it was what he<BR>
> said.  But I can't remember what Carthage was about... it's being one of<BR>
> those days at work, and the period of history I know best begins with<BR>
> Julius Caesar and ends with the Enlightenment, at least as far as Europe<BR>
> is concerned.  =)  Forgive my space brain and tell me if there was an<BR>
> ideological component to Carthage or if it was one of those hundreds of<BR>
> years of ethnic hatred due to close competition things.<BR>
<BR>
There wasn't any significant ideological component, AFAIK. It was <BR>
simply a matter of finishing off the job. Mind you it took a fair bit <BR>
of stirring by rabid anti-Carthage senator, etc to get the Third Punic <BR>
War rolling, and I suspect that the agitators were probably those who <BR>
stood to profit most.<BR>
<BR>
However for an even earlier example that (arguably) wasn't economic or <BR>
territorial I submit the Persian Wars. They were largely fought on the <BR>
(mainland) Greek side out of a belief that Greeks were superior to <BR>
everyone else, and therefore should be under Persian domination. Of <BR>
course once the Ionian Greeks started to actually succeed in their <BR>
mainland assisted revolts the Persians turned it into an invasion of <BR>
mainland Greece.<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:43:01 -0700<BR>
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@GLJA.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC (OT): Taikonauts!<BR>
<BR>
"Josh W. Spencer" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Dennis:<BR>
> Sorry you feel that way. In quite a few cases, we were no better than<BR>
> the Soviets in the arms race: sending soldiers in toward ground zero,<BR>
> not compensating them properly; deploying nukes in other countries<BR>
> without the permission of the host governments. If everything we do in<BR>
> space is to be American-made, that's not common sense in my humble<BR>
> opinion...that's arrogance.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Yes, especially when considering just where Von Braun came from.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Erwin Fritz<BR>
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.<BR>
http://www.glja.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:48:21 GMT<BR>
From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Traveller-like fiction<BR>
<BR>
I know this is an old thread but it always surprises me that all the <BR>
old-timers always ignore Jeffereson P. Swycaffer's two Concordat trilogies.  <BR>
These were directly inspired by traveller and contain some good story leads <BR>
which were directly taken from his traveller campaign.  His female <BR>
characters are coming across as strong and credible which is surprising for <BR>
the time that he was writing in.  These trilogies ought to be aviable in any <BR>
good used SF bookstore or online.  Titles for those are interested are:<BR>
&#61549; Swycaffer, Jefferson P.  Not In  Our Stars [Avon Books]- Classic <BR>
Traveller<BR>
&#61549; Swycaffer, Jefferson P.  Become the Hunted [Avon Books]- Classic <BR>
Traveller<BR>
&#61549; Swycaffer, Jefferson P.  The Universal Prey [Avon Books]- Classic <BR>
Traveller<BR>
&#61549; Swycaffer, Jefferson P.  The Praesidium of Archive [Avon Books]- <BR>
Classic Traveller<BR>
&#61549; Swycaffer, Jefferson P.  The Empires Legacy [New Infinities <BR>
Productions Inc] - Classic Traveller<BR>
&#61549; Swycaffer, Jefferson P.  Voyage of the Planetslayer [New Infinities <BR>
Productions Inc] - Classic Traveller<BR>
&#61549; Swycaffer, Jefferson P.  Revolt and Rebirth [New Infinities <BR>
Productions Inc] - Classic Traveller<BR>
  I have also often wonder if Paul Brunelle is the pen name of JPS.  He is <BR>
really phenomenal writer who also wrote some short Traveller-inspired <BR>
fiction for Dragon.  So check it out!<BR>
<BR>
IMTU (tc+) tm++ tn t4 tt (tg>+)  ru  ge++@/> 3i jt+ au+ pi+ st+@ ls--  kk <BR>
hi++ as--  vr--  dr+  so-  zh++  vi+  da  sy-<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:48:02 +1000<BR>
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Ecky Thump!<BR>
<BR>
The Roc wrote<BR>
>>><BR>
Black puddings?  Doesn't one have to be a proponent of Eccie Thump (sp?) to<BR>
use these with effect?<BR>
<BR>
Just wondering?<BR>
<<<<BR>
<BR>
No, but the self inflicted wounds tend to increase if you dont use the mythical<BR>
martial art.<BR>
<BR>
Darryl<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1379<BR>
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